How to Get 9x the Leads and 3x Sales | Tom Matzen | 290

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Tom Matzen is the Chief Movement Maker at the Entrepreneur Empowerment Institute. This online institute hopes to reverse the failure rate of small businesses by equipping existing and aspiring entrepreneurs with the business skills and tools they need. Tom has helped hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs grow their businesses by 7 and 8 figures. He is also a best-selling author and has been featured in publications including Entrepreneur, USA Today, and The Wall Street Journal.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • Why Tom Matzen is still an entrepreneur after starting and owning a whopping 87 businesses
  • Tom shares the lessons he learned from his biggest business missteps (and how he became a dolphin instead of a carp)
  • The number one mistake that entrepreneurs make when trying to produce leads and increase profits
  • Tom’s winning strategy for generating 9x the prospects and 3x the sales
  • The six key steps of the strategic risk reversal technique
  • Tom reveals the best business advice he has ever received and how it helped him guarantee results
  • Tom’s unforgettable experience swimming with dolphins in the wild
  • What should you be doing right now to start thriving as an entrepreneur?

In this episode…

Do you want your business to thrive or survive? In the business world, there are three types of people: sharks, carps, and dolphins. While carps are busy trying to survive attacks from bloodthirsty sharks, dolphins are spending their lives thriving—boosting their leads and sales without any limitations or distractions. So how can you start working like a dolphin?

Not only has entrepreneur Tom Matzen swam with dolphins in the wild, but he has learned to act like one in his business, as well. By promoting risk-free guarantees, embracing teamwork, and outsmarting his competition, Tom has mastered the art of multiplying both his prospects and his sales. Now, he wants to help other entrepreneurs do the same.

Join host Dan Kuschell in this episode of the Growth to Freedom podcast as he sits down with Tom Matzen of the Entrepreneur Empowerment Institute to discuss his strategy for growing leads and sales exponentially. Tom explains how to increase your prospects and profits using six simple steps. He also shares an unforgettable story about swimming with dolphins—and how it applies to his thriving business model. Stay tuned.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode

Thanks for listening to this episode of

Are you struggling to get a steady flow of new clients every day? Or maybe hit a plateau or hit a wall in growing your business? Well, let’s help you solve this problem today. Let’s review your business and have a conversation. You can do that for free today at That’s

In addition, if you’re looking for a simple way to implement some of what we’ve been talking about in today’s episode, I want to encourage you to get our free small business toolkit. You can get that at That’s

If you’d like access to the special resources and all the show notes for this special episode, make sure to visit

Episode Transcript

Dan Kuschell 0:03

Welcome to the show that brings you inspiration, transformation and leadership. We’re helping you connect the dots, see the blind spots and get unstuck. So you can go out, create more leads, more sales, more profits, more importantly, so you can have a bigger impact and have a bigger reach and make a bigger contribution. I have a question for you. What movement are you going to create today? Well, here’s the deal. If you don’t have any new prospects or any new potential leads, it’s going to be hard to create a movement know how No matter how much of a force for good on the inside, you may be now if you ever find yourself feeling like you are like the world’s best kept secret or in some ways you are invisible or maybe saying to yourself quietly in the back of your head. God if only people knew what I could do for them to help them and if so, you are going to love today’s session. Today’s guest expert. We’re going to talk about to you today about how to nine get nine times the prospects to your business to raise their hand and our expert today. He’s a Chief Movement Maker at Entrepreneur Empowerment Institute. He helps entrepreneurs like you grow their businesses by seven, eight figures. He’s actually helped entrepreneurs like you grow their business by over 100 million dollars. He started and been a part of 82 businesses of his own. And he’s worked with hundreds and thousands of clients and entrepreneurs, business owners, just like you he’s a best-selling author of two amazing books. He shared his strategies with over 100,000 business owners, TV, radio, print, I could go on and on and on. His name is Tom Matzen. He’s world class Tom, welcome to the show. How are you?

Tom Matzen 1:47

Hey Dan, so excited to be here nicely hit on the intro. My mom would be proud. I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Dan Kuschell 1:53

Yes, and we have a couple of people to thank for our connection and staying in contact over these last. It’s been an hour of 2018 through now, yeah, so going each other. Over that time we have Mitch Russo to thank, you know, who was a former CEO for Tony Robbins and you know Chad Holmes, one of

Tom Matzen 2:11

the wisest guys on planet earth I call exactly

Dan Kuschell 2:13

amazing human being. And by the way, as you’re listening, or watching, you can go type into, Mitch Russo, you can listen to that episode and then staying connected. Dr. Gordon has an amazing community where he keeps, you know, you know, really bright people like I’m like, I’m probably the dumbest person in the room. But he’s a bright group of people. Tom is one of those game changers. It’s always sharing insights, value, wisdom, and all the real, real stuff he’s doing like, now, not stuff that was outdated five years ago, or five days ago, even but like right now. So Tom, it’s awesome to have you I want to dive right into our promises, you know, how do you get nine times a lead to get people to raise their hand? Before we get to that, though, I’m curious, why are you doing like you’ve had all this success. You know, I know You’ve made money, you talk about it publicly made money lost money. I’ve had an amazing windfall of success last several years. Why are you still doing what you’re doing? 82 plus businesses later?

Tom Matzen 3:11

Well, it’s actually 87. I did the math the other day. And the short answer is I got divorced two years ago. So I gotta start over. No. That’s true. And the, what I realized about four and a half, five years ago, now I had hired this gal, a French gal living in Texas, to get our team together and sort of do one of these, what’s our calling, what’s our purpose sessions, she was far more woo than that, but let’s just call it that of the surface. And at the end of it, I came up with what I now call my new title, which is chief movement maker. Yes. for 37 years, I’ve worked with entrepreneurs, as you know, 10s of thousands of them. But in the first half of that, all bricks and mortar physical businesses, service businesses, what we lovingly call today businesses. Yes. And of all sizes, a lot of them were startups. And I went through three different phases. But as I as I started to look at what am I going to do with the rest of my business career, I realized there was a subset of entrepreneurs that I like to play with most. And that’s people that really truly wanted to create a movement. You see, I believe we’re all creating movements as entrepreneurs, some of us are just better at it than others, right? And so when we recognize that we go well, movements, what do you mean, I just want to sell some stuff? Well, if you just want to sell some stuff, you’re gonna be a commodity.

I believe we're all creating movements as entrepreneurs. - Tom Matzen Click To Tweet

Dan Kuschell 4:34

You’re gonna be a commodity.

Tom Matzen 4:35

Yep. And and one of the classic books on on marketing, The22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, Trout and Ries talks about the law of category. And it says in the long run, there’s one number one in a category. And then there’s another law called the law of duality, which says in the long run number one has 40 to 45% of the market. Number two has 15 to 20. percent of the market, maybe 25%. And everybody else fights over the rest. You do that on a pie chart, those of you playing along at home, there is not much left for everyone else to fight over. So it’s really simple. If you’re not number one or number two, what are you doing? Yep. What are you doing? And you can’t be number one or number two and be a commodity. You know, my old mentor and coach Jay Abraham talks about the strategy of preeminence You know, I’ve talked about that many times. We love that philosophy, because that’s about being not just good, but being so good, that literally there is no direct competition to you. And, and for me, I’ve decided that’s the game I want to play. I want to work with people that are making a difference in the world. I want to make massive impact, massive contribution. And yes, because in a free society, you get paid for that if you do a good job, massive income,

Dan Kuschell 5:52

value creation, right value creation, value creation.

Tom Matzen 5:55

Yeah. If you don’t have enough cash in your bank cards, because you’re not giving enough value in the market. That’s it.

Dan Kuschell 5:59

or know how to even structure the value. Right? Right. And you know what’s fascinating is some people would see your story, read your story. I mean, you got two best selling books here an interview with you, it’s you’ve done a lot, hundreds and thousands of those. You have amazing courses, amazing programs that you help people with. And it would almost seems as though you have like this Midas touch and so to just kind of put it in perspective, yo for, you know, the average person that might have a tendency to go well, of course, he’s successful Look at him, he’s, you know, he’s been trained at this, can you just maybe give some up a story or, you know, maybe describe your biggest business failure or business mistake, maybe what you learn from it that others can learn from it too happy

Tom Matzen 6:45

to do that. And of those 87 businesses, only eight have been seven figures or beyond. So if you do the math, that’s a you know, 70, 79 that have it which means you know, I More of our businesses have failed to reach their goals than have reached their goals over that period of time. The vast majority, the vast majority said I’m getting pretty close to like restaurant success rate with those numbers. So yeah, it’s part of the journey and I always talk about made and lost millions because some of the best examples have come from that. My most famous one is how I turned $21 million in an IPO into 10 million in debt in six easy months. We’ve been working on this project, it was a golf Training Center franchise the sport of golf for those listening and audio. And we were building indoor training centers and franchising them and decided to go public and spent several years putting the elements together and prepare to do what was technically called a reverse merger on the Toronto Stock Exchange. It’s basically you buy a shell company that’s already trading and your public overnight, overnight after four years of profit. Hundreds of thousands of legal fees overnight. And so we had been building the company up and selling franchises and growing. And as we were going public, the plan was for me to step down as CEO, and have a public company experienced CEO take over a shark in our lingo, because we knew the public markets, we’re not for dolphins like Tom. We do several things. Number one is I get eaten alive in that world of sharks. And number two, we wanted to have some major major impacts, we needed to recruit a shark to hold our own. And so we hired this executive research firm, and they found 650 candidates and we narrowed it down to the top 12. And then the board and I met with each of the 12 finalists, and the top two were amazing head and shoulders above the others. And we decided, Well, you know, we don’t even know if they’ll accept our offer because we couldn’t pay them a fortune, but we could link them into results. So we made an offer to both of them. They both said yes. So we took the top guy with the top experience and he stepped in and I stepped down as CEO. And the only condition he had was that I would step down a year early from the board as well. And he’s positioned it as you know, we want to make sure that transition is smooth and that the new people follow. You know, they follow me and all that. Well, I later learned that last piece was so he could change his contract and take all the money from the tail and disappear within six months. Legally, not morally, but legally, he could do that, because the contract he signed with me wouldn’t allow him to do that. And if I’d stayed on the board, I would have went, Ah, no, that wasn’t the deal, buddy. What are you talking about? Right. So when he drained the tail, the company couldn’t do its quarterly filing. And if you know anything about public companies, you don’t file your quarterly filing exactly on time. You are frozen immediately, while you get the filing done. And when you’re a new public company, and you’re frozen, good luck raising capital. Good luck raising capital in the last year before we went public. I famously Talk about this when we give away legal documents on giveaways. We spent 750,000 on legal fees, and our gross sales were 900,000. Wow. So we had no surplus sitting around and and I had stepped down and and the company literally couldn’t file. And so it got delisted. And that was a very short cycle into receivership. And we lost it all. We lost everything. On paper, I had $21 million worth of stock. And six months later, literally, it was all gone. And I I learned many lessons, but the biggest. It comes from a book called a Strategy of the Dolphin. And it was written in 1993. You can only get on Kindle today. And it talks about three types of people. Sharks, dolphins and carp. Sharks killer be killed. You’re quite familiar with that world. Dan, you eat up all the time, right? It’s all about them. Yeah, it’s all about them. And their job is to take whatever they can from you and you, you hold your own and you you’ll negotiate back and forth and their World Vision is that There’s a pie. And there’s only so many pieces and I’m gonna get mine right now. That’s the sharks all familiar with that. Dolphins are the team players. It’s all about Win win. It’s all about having fun. It’s all about working together. And the carp are the ones that are always getting eaten by the sharks. Every time you talk to them. You call them up and say, Hey, how you doing? He’s like, Oh, no, really? No, you got eaten by another shark? Didn’t you get eaten by one last week? Brother, like what’s going on? And these are the people you talk to them and every time you talk to them, another shark is eating them somehow. Right? And Yep, blows my mind. But that’s the world of carp. That’s the world of carp. So dolphins are in this unique category, where it’s about Win win. It’s about the team. It’s about the pod, but in the wild, they’re the only creature the shark fears Hmm. And the reason for that I swam with the dolphins in the wild. It’s amazing experience. The amazing part is if a shark goes after a weak part of the pond, say a sick dolphin The rest of the pod will gang up on that shark and beat it senseless until it can swim. And when a shark can swim dies, it has to be moving all the time for auction go through skills. I love that metaphor. I love it. Now I’ve added an extra category. Let’s see if you can recognize this dad, enlightened shark, no lightning shark. It’s still all about them. But they believe they got to help you get what you want. So they can get what they want. Yeah, your love Your Money, Your adoration, your sacks, whatever, like it’s, but it’s still all about them. Except they know they’re enlightened. They know to get what they want. They have to help you get what you want. And most of the big name trainers in our space are lighting sharks. I’ve got to know many of them. I’ve got to know them on stage behind the stage in the green room, in their high end masterminds. Like you have feet up behind the scenes. It’s amazing. It’s all about them. That’s what it’s all about. Even the whole concept of Ascension model that we were talking about in the group. Before we started the interview, the essential model works for nobody know where three people out of 10,000 I’ve met make money on an essential model. And yet all these gurus teach them the essential model. And when I confront them on it friendly, I’ll say blah, blah, blah. They’re like, Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. No, it doesn’t work. But you know, what are we gonna do? We were getting all the money here. So we got to fill in all this other stuff. Which is code for we got to squeeze some money out of them.

Dan Kuschell 13:25


Tom Matzen 13:27

So enlightened sharks, you can promote them. They can promote you, but don’t partner with them. Don’t partner with them. And the worst part about that big lesson was we knew he was a shark. We wanted a shark. We recruited a shark, my wife at that time now my first wife, xy, said, dough, he’s a shark, he’s gonna steal you blind. He’s gonna we’re gonna lose all our investment. And of course, when that happened, she was right to remind me.

Dan Kuschell 13:57

There’s so many lessons here to learn as you’re listening right now. I don’t know If you’re fascinated by would you want to know where Tom went swimming with dolphins. And when we come back, we’re gonna ask Tom, hey, where were you swimming with those wild dolphins? I want to know the answer to that, because that’s going to tie into how you can nine times the amount of leads you get by having your clients raise their hand to the right kind of offer. So if you’re looking for a way to get more leads, you’re also looking for a way to get more sales, but in a non salesy not overly hypee way, in a cool way that makes it fun to create an add value to each other. Right? Where you can attract the right kind of clients. Many would say your perfect line many would say, your highest value clients that you love to work with who appreciate you enhance you, utilize you refer you and there’s a huge financial reward. If you want to know more about how to do that. And where did Tom swim with the dolphins? We’re going to cover that when we come back right after this with Tom Matzen on Thanks for listening to the This episode of Are you struggling to get a steady flow of new clients every day? Or maybe hit a plateau or hit a wall and growing your business? Well, let’s help you solve this problem today. Let’s review your business and have a conversation. You can do that for free today at, that’s In addition, if you’re looking for a simple way to implement some of what we’ve been talking about in today’s episode, I want to encourage you to get our free small business toolkit. You can get that at that’s If you’d like access to the special resources and all the show notes for this special episode, make sure to visit Welcome back to now, Tom before we get into the dolphin and where you swim with the dolphins, right? You know, we’re talking about the idea of how to get nine times prospects the leads to raise their hand. So you get three times the clients. Right? What are some before we get into the specific strategy of that? What are some of the common mistakes you see that most business owners are making when it comes to trying to generate prospects or leads or sales?

Tom Matzen 16:17

Great question. And I consider myself there’s few things in life I consider myself to be an expert on but this is definitely one of them. I’ve invested millions in this field and most of the efforts in all those 87 businesses and and hundreds and hundreds of direct clients and thousands indirect have been on this area. And it’s interesting you asked that question because I was I was looking at exactly that recently. And I thought, if this was for a gal who has military spouses starting new businesses, she was a podcast interview, fairly new show fairly new audience. And I did it because I support the veteran side of the thing. I was like, I don’t be that I don’t care what size the show is. Like, oh yeah. But these guys are like right at the beginning of the beginning of the beginning, what would I want to share with them at that point and one of them related to this? People? entrepreneurs, let me rephrase that small business owners sell features and benefits. And Nobody wants features and benefits. What they want is what the benefits will get them. different terms for that. Jeff Walker calls it the applied benefit of the benefit. Tony Robbins calls it the transformation. I call it now. outcomes. Outcomes I try and you know, grade seven, it’s a, it’s the outcome. So if you’re selling a service that you’re selling a haircut service, or no, sorry, I shouldn’t use that one with me and you because that’s like a complete waste of time. Go to someone else. Okay, next, if you’re selling a massage service, there we go, right. We’re not looking for a massage. We’re not looking to get our muscles loosened up. We’re looking for that feeling of amazingness that comes Post massage, or we’re looking for that higher state of productivity that comes when that tension is removed. And we’re more in the zone. Right? You’ve got a professional sports background, your sons and aspiring pro athlete I learned, right? The being tension free is essential to human excellence at a high level. Well, not just for athletes, but for entrepreneurs. Yes. Right. So if that massage service sold that now I’m coming once a week. I’m buying a 50 package package. I’m not coming whenever I feel like I can’t move my shoulders. I need to get a massage reactively doing something, right instead? I mean, it’s a peak state machine. Right? Well, what’s the difference Dan and your income or my income if we’re in peak state, or we’re sort of peak state a lot. Write a lot, and then we’re more creative or more fine, we’re having a better time Our team is more inspired to work with us. Our clients love us a lot more. Because we’re grounded. We’re more creative. Everything is better. Everything is better. In fact, I have a new client in our million dollar book launch division. And she takes entrepreneurs and non entrepreneur couples, and helps them figure it out so they don’t get divorced. And we were brainstorming her launch and her program strategy yesterday and a launch call as we record this. And it was fascinating, because that’s not an area I’m an expert in. I’m divorced. And we’re on good terms, but that I mean, it is not an area I’m an expert in. And so I was curious to see like, how do you do what you do so on username, like what do you do? What do you do here? What do you do here? And she started getting into that when when the entrepreneur, she called it the alpha to the stay at home, or the other person’s Omega, the out when the alpha is in the zone. Their sex is amazing. And I’m starting blushes, we’re doing this thing on video of like, they tell me more than I want to talk about that we’re on video and I’m trying not to blush and I’m looking around. But the reality was she had this direct connection between those two things, and their income and their income. And so she was was really clear that if someone followed these strategies, not only would they make, would they have a better life, would they have more fun in their life? They would make a lot more money. Okay, so back to this massage place. Okay. What are they selling? If you look at most massage services, I’m talking about honorable clean ones. Right? If you look what they’re selling, look at their, at their website or look at their directory listing or look at their fliers or look at what they promote. They’re not selling outcomes. They’re not selling anything close to it. So I think that’s the number one mistake. We could go into lots of others, but that one alone is so transformative, and it syncs up with our main message today about how do you get nine times the product Because you got to know what you’re asking for. Who are you asking? What game are you playing? What game are you playing? And I think that’s the biggest thing. And by the way, not just small business owners, I see a lot of sophisticated entrepreneurs who forget. Yes, right. You know this, I mean, a lot of the good stuff, you’re like, Oh, yeah, I used to do that. Don’t get like me. I’m like, oh, man, you know, podcast the other day, I was like, holy cow. Why am I not doing that? I used to do that all the time. Right. So it’s not sometimes isn’t just about brand new ideas. Sometimes this is about a deeper understanding of an existing idea that we know is a good idea. Just get back using it.

Nobody wants features and benefits. What they want is what the benefits will get them. - Tom Matzen Click To Tweet

Dan Kuschell 21:42

And then speaking of that, I know that people are going to walk away from this segment this session going, why am I not doing that? So let’s dive in. You know, let’s talk about how does somebody go out and generate nine times the prospects or leads three times the sales with the method that you teach.

Tom Matzen 22:00

So this strategy I learned from a from a prospective client when I was 23. And then I learned it at a much deeper level when I hired Jay Abraham to be my personal coach. For those that don’t know, Jay, where are you young uns go Google. For everyone else, probably the smartest marketer on planet Earth, documented sales increases. Now he talks about 21 billion, but I know it’s far higher than that. The guy’s brilliant. And what he’s particularly brilliant about is taking ideas from one industry and applying it to another. He calls this strategic risk reversal, strategic risk reversal, basically really fancy, really amazing guarantees. But the reason he calls it risk reversal, is that done right? You’re taking the risk from your prospect shoulders, and you’re putting it on your shoulders. And when you do that, you create this compelling opportunity for people to say wow, I mean, on a high level, I’m so confident I can get you there, Dan, that most of your payment is linked to results. Yep. Everyone can relate to that. I don’t need any fancy wording. I don’t any subconscious commands Dan, by now it’s time to seize your destiny. I don’t need any of that garbage manipulating the subconscious brain. I’ve learned it I’ve taken NLP and their social conditioning. I understand it. I’ve even used it from stage. But you know what, with a good risk reversal, you don’t need any of that. Any of that because you get the confidence in what you’re offering. And you’re prepared to take that risk off someone’s shoulders. Now, there’s good ways to do that and bad ways to do that. And there are six key elements to making it work. And so if we got time, we’ll dig into all six of those.

Dan Kuschell 23:45

Awesome, what’s the first step?

Tom Matzen 23:47

The first thing you want to do is identify what are the biggest risks your prospects face, when they’re working with you? Right? time and money are the obvious ones. But what else? What are the other risks? There was an old joke about IBM that Back in the day, they were called by their competition inferior but marketable. Right? The competition would always joke Oh, yeah, those guys. Yeah, they can sure sell but boy, their product is crap. And they would still outselling everyone else in the entire industry. Yep. But here’s the thing. Nobody ever got fired for hiring IBM. Right? Lots of people could get fired by hiring Dan and Tom’s computer shop. Right? Right. But for IBM, no, you never got fired. So maybe the risk is they will get fired. Maybe the risk if they’re an entrepreneur, and they spend 25 grand on your coaching program is they get divorced. Because you’ve done that enough, honey, I keep telling you, you’re wasting your money, you wasted your money. Again, I’m out of here a real story that will resonate with way too many people by the way. Right. So you need to identify one of the biggest risks someone faces when working with you. And time and money quantify that what are the time and money risks and then what are the other risks? Okay, step number one make sense. Yep. Number two, you want to then create the biggest, boldest possible guarantee, you can think of to overcome those risks. Biggest boldest possible guarantee. I love this example. I was doing a seminar several years ago with a bunch of local businesses and there was a realtor in the room, Kathleen Mahjong, and we were teaching this particular content piece at the end of one day and the start of the next day. And we just got to this section biggest boldest possible guaranteed we’re doing some exercises, and then the day wrapped and then the next morning we were continuing on, and I didn’t think much about it. And she turns out she had a listing presentation that night. And as she drove from where we were doing the seminar to the listing presentation, she went biggest bonus possible guaranteed biggest bonus possible guarantee. Ah, well, I guess I could guarantee to sell his home and he buys a new one from me. So that would be great. I’d like to do that. What would that look like? And so the next morning she comes in and she says Here’s what I came up with. I will guarantee to sell your home with a 95% of the listing price within 30 days and help you buy your new home. And if I don’t accomplish the first, I’ll pay your mortgage on the first home until it sells whoo that’s sexy. 60 grand the guy said yes that night 60 grand she made in Commission on the first time she tested the idea. Now it turns out for you realtors out there, Kathleen used to be a real estate secretary who got into real estate because all these young hotshot men kept lying to their clients about the value of the properties. Yep, so she went, you know what, I’m just gonna be honest and tell them what their property’s really worth and not lie to them. And that was her whole value proposition. Well, lo and behold, what a smart strategy. Gee, we don’t like being lied to. Yeah, go figure. We don’t like being lied to. Innovative strategy. None. That’s that’s what she did. And off she went and She had a great driving practice. But she still wasn’t like top of her field. And then she added this guarantee and boom. And here’s the thing. She didn’t take a listing that wasn’t fairly priced. So she knew she could sell the 95% of the listing price because it was fair.

Dan Kuschell 27:15


Tom Matzen 27:16

She didn’t have to negotiate, come back to them and say, Oh, I’m sorry, you know, I tried but you have to learn about hundred grand. Like none of those games, a lot of the young box would play. And she didn’t take a listing. She had done her homework, so she knew she could move it fast. Her average transaction was 20 days. So So her 30 days was like plenty of time. So that’s a to me a great example of the biggest boldest possible guarantee on a physical type business, in our in our world where we teach people to sell their wisdom and knowledge. Our million dollar book launch program is probably another example we guarantee a million dollars in sales within 18 months around the book. Well, no book does a million dollars in sales are very few as you know. We help I’m gonna develop a high ticket program. And the book supports the program. And then we do a book launch and raise a bunch of money for charity and a masterclass and a bunch of components in the middle. But the guarantee is a million dollars. And we take 87 and a half percent of our fee linked to results. So they put some skin in the game, so they’re committed and the rest is all linked to results. People look at it whether or not they work with us they look at and they go, Well, that’s a no brainer. Like why would I do that? In fact, it’s funny when multiple author people see our presentation, they say the same thing. Like you know, new people is like, Oh, yeah, writing a book, like multiple often people know Yeah, that’s easy. Turning the book into something real is a different story. But writing a book is easy. So there’s, there’s the second step. Does that make sense? Any questions about that?

Dan Kuschell 28:49

That’s great. So as you’re listening, watching right now, identify the problem, identify the risks, your prospects have, you know time money, what else number two, make the boldest possible. guarantee possible, right? What’s step three times Step three

Tom Matzen 29:04

is you got to figure out how to deliver on the guarantee. This is where there’s some work, you got to figure out how to deliver on the guarantee. You got to figure out what’s it gonna take for you to deliver on that guarantee all the time. Now, you may or may not do it all the time, but you want to figure out how to do it all the time. And that leads right into Step four, which I call an your ragging your plan. One of the smartest business coaches I know is Anurag Gupta from the Difference Engine. He specializes in taking companies from 10 million a year to a billion and wait for Dan 100% success rate. Wow. Now, to be fair, if he hires you and you don’t listen, he fires your ass. So not 100% of the clients that start with him get there. Right. His first success story was a little yoga retail shop called Lulu Lemon started with one location when he became Chip Wilson’s coach, and he stopped coaching Chip when he passed the billion dollar mark. So he knows what he’s doing in here. And his strategy is, and this is like the best business advice I’ve ever gotten, I’m gonna give it really quickly because of our timeframes here. So you may want to listen to this a few times for you sharp entrepreneurs, you take your goal, you double it. first mistake people make is they shoot for their goal. So you double your goal. Let’s say you want to do a million dollars in the next 12 months, double it to 2 million, then you create three separate strategies. Totally redundant, each capable of the $2 million target. So math test, Dan, what do you actually playing for now?

Dan Kuschell 30:33

Well, now it’s 6

Tom Matzen 30:36

6 million. So everyone tuning in, think about the last time you set a major goal. Most of us didn’t get there. Most of us didn’t get there. That’s the data. But did you get one sixth of the way? It’s about 18%. When I do this in front of room of 1000 people or more and I can put their hand up how far they got how far they got almost everyone in the room on a major goal. got at least 20% of the way So this is a way to absolutely positively guarantee you get there. So when you figure out how to deliver and then you and your rag that now you’re in excellent shape. And then the fifth step is to link your payments to your clients results, not your calendar. I joke about this all the time. So as you Well, how do you tell if the payments are linked to results? Is it a calendar? Or is it your income? Is it a measurable outcome? Is it a quantifiable end result that matters to you? That’s the results. If it’s the calendar, if your payments are linked to a calendar, that’s them. That’s payments linked to their results. It’s another month I need some 3500 bucks. Dan, please. Right. So two different strategies. And then of course, the last piece, you got to test and measure, test and measure, test and measure. And what we find from testing and measuring is that nine times as many people nine times raise their hand to do business with you That’s the good news. You’re not going to do nine times the sales though because guess what, when you guarantee results you are going to screen and qualify.

Dan Kuschell 32:08

Have to have

Tom Matzen 32:10

you don’t need any training on it, you’re gonna do it you’re only gonna let people in you know, you can get results.

Dan Kuschell 32:16

And I want to stop you right here real quick as you’re listening or watching. Make sure you create a vetting process to select the right kind of clients don’t make the mistakes that I’ve imagined Tom, both of us have. A lot of stories on this have cost me probably hundreds of millions of dollars in mistakes, working with the wrong partners working with the wrong people. This strategy can work it will work and just add that extra layer. It takes a little work. But make sure you create some kind of a selection criteria of your right fit kind of

Tom Matzen 32:48

The cool part of that is instead of pursuing pitch, yep, you’re going after them. You are screen and qualify. Yep. You are deciding whether you do work with them or not. Whether you invite them in or not, and it’s actually not a lot of work once you decide to own Yes. A lot of work to decide, I will tell you it’s a lot of stress for some people to make that shift especially if they’re good at selling the old fashioned way. You know, you’re not selling to get seven noes. Yeah, not with high ticket. No read the books been selling. Look at the data. Your high ticket, you get seven knows you are actually pissing them off. Yeah, right. You don’t say hey, Dan, you want to buy that franchise Wednesday morning or Thursday afternoon? Right? That’s not the way it works with high ticket. That’s right does not work that way. And if you want to sell high ticket well, anyone tuning in, and you know in our world that’s 10,000 and up in a transaction size. But if you want to sell high ticket, you should be screening and qualifying, not pursuing and pitching.

If you want to sell high ticket, you should be screening and qualifying, not pursuing and pitching. - Tom Matzen Click To Tweet

Dan Kuschell 33:47

Yes. And be willing to disqualify.

Tom Matzen 33:49

Absolutely. That’s part of the process. You’ll be so happy when you do that. You know, we’re not a good fit, Dan, I really appreciate your time, but get lost, buddy. I mean, I you know, I’ve saved that way. Of course.

Dan Kuschell 34:00

As you’re listening or why I mean have you gotten some good nuggets so far? I mean six steps to be able to nine times your leads your prospects three extra sales, you know the end repeat step. How do you say Step four, Anurag your plan A and you

Tom Matzen 34:16

areAnurag it I call it that because I I love homage I’m one of these guys that wants to pay homage to the ideas I’ve learned. Call me crazy. But I actually like to source the things and and you’re a goof does the guy that taught me that strategy, best business strategy I’ve ever had you take your goal, you double it, you create three redundant strategies to each achieve it. You got to play this for real kids. If you’re playing along at home, don’t like pretend do this. You got to really do this. Our local area masterminds we guarantee a quarter million in sales for everyone that comes in the program. But we actually don’t play the quarter million we earn your agad so we play half 1,000,003 different ways. A million and a half. Goes to add a million and a half sales over the 12 months we blow past the quarter million that Right. It’s such a great strategy it took but I will tell you if you’re listening to this for the first time, and you haven’t heard me share this somewhere else. It It took me three or four times before I even had a frickin clue what he was talking about. Yes, like, because I always I always thought it was like pretended numbers like okay, well, we’ll pretend we’re doing that. No, you got to really do that. Yep, you got to really do that. And place.

Dan Kuschell 35:22

I mean, this is a strategy. We didn’t call it the Anurag Gupta method, right? We’ve been doing versions of this. And you know, we’ve got you know, many examples like you do, Tom of people achieving goals and results that are way beyond what they initially set. Because once you have a model or method to hit it, you just none of this is ever easy, right? None of it right. And it’s all test doesn’t matter what we like it matters, what works and every market is unique. Every client can be unique and all those sorts of things. So use all those disclaimers. Yet at the same time. There are proven models that if you just work those models and go deep with Those models, they will bring you results right now. And the cool part

Tom Matzen 36:04

is it’s easier to 10 x your business than to x your business. Right. Dan Sullivan talks about this all the time. Yes, it is easier when you’re when you’re thinking 10 X, you have to think strategies of leverage. Yes. When you’re thinking to x, you can just suck it up princess and work extra hard.

It's easier to 10x your business than to 2x your business. - Tom Matzen Click To Tweet

Dan Kuschell 36:21

Yeah, do twice the work twice the

Tom Matzen 36:23

work put in twice the hours but good luck doing that. And twice again. Right when you lose all your hair, whoa. Wait a second. Yeah, we’ve learned these lessons the hard way. Some of them have weighed down.

Dan Kuschell 36:37

Yes, absolutely. And speaking of last day, you got so many resources, Tom, so many amazing programs, tools, trainings, I mean a wealth of resources. If people want to go deeper with what you’re sharing and go deeper with, you know, your program that you know, basically generate one and a half million in sales, your book selling line in other programs. How can people connect with you learn more about what you’re up to Well,

Tom Matzen 37:00

thanks for asking Dan, the easiest way is to go to LinkedIn and look up my name. We’ve got some 20,000 connections there. And there’s links to all of our different major divisions and programs. However, I have something for your audience that’s even better than that. Awesome. We have a high ticket program, our most popular high ticket program. We decided this year to give it away to as many people as we can full scholarships. It’s a $10,000 program. It’s called the Game Changer Program Academy. And in it, we teach you how to create blueprint, validate, and sell a high ticket program that guarantees results for your clients. Not only is there the training but there’s coaching 12 calls a month, template systems success accountability partners. It’s a full high ticket program, but it’s entirely scholarships by us. Currently, not everyone gets in but right now about 81% of the people applying or getting in. I’m honored to say we’ve given away two and a half million dollars worth of scholarships this year. And after today’s show, it’ll probably be at least 2.5 5 million right now. It’s, I mean, we’re if you’re listening in and you want to have a high ticket program where you take your wisdom and knowledge and sell it around the world, or you don’t have wisdom and knowledge, but you want to do the research and become what I call reporter authority. Right, we’re recording this in the middle of the COVID craziness. Most of the advisors we have are giving us advice I’ve never had COVID and I’m glad doctors haven’t had COVID because they’ve been on some level. Right? That’s really glad that you can get reporter authority you can research things can become really good at it, or you can experience it become really good at it like Dan and I have over the years. Both are good authorities. Either one can be good for this program, and will do take the entire thing scholarship, the whole thing to you. We’ll make sure the link is in the show notes for Dan and and just click on that and be that’s the best way to do that. But we still haven’t talked about where I swam with the dolphins in the wild. You know, we

Dan Kuschell 38:57

haven’t. So we’re gonna dive into that and By the way, check the show notes. If you want to come back to this episode, by the way, you can do that at Look for the link to get access to the $10,000 high ticket program. You may just qualify for a full scholarship 81% of people do, go through that process hit the link, get started. I mean, Tom, you’re one of the best in the world at what you do. And it’s really Yes, take advantage of what Tom’s making available. Don’t treat it like something free. It’s not free. It’s a $10,000 program, treat it that way. And you’ll find yourself getting more results as a result of you being more that heard you. If Tom’s gifting you this to you this is I have no incentive here. No affiliate thing, etc. It’s just we’ll pay you

Tom Matzen 39:43

100% of the free scholarship, Dan. Well, I would tell

Dan Kuschell 39:46

Tom and say hey, to prove that I’m committed. I’m sending X dollars to your favorite charity. What is your favorite charity?

Tom Matzen 39:54

Kiva Kiva. We do microloans with Kiva. We’ve got over 100 micro loans with Kiva right now We love it. We are in fact, my son is my son and I are getting together in a few days, and we’re gonna pick some more. I think we’re in 43 countries, we have loan. So it’s pretty cool.

Dan Kuschell 40:09

That’s amazing. So if you want to show Tom that you’re really committed from our show, not that he’s requiring you to them, and certainly I’m not requiring you to, but I would encourage you put a little skin in the game for the gift he’s giving you, you know, go apply, go through the process. They’ve got scholarships available if you qualify, and then I would send Tom a note or his team a note and say, Hey, I just want to let you know, I went a little extra step. And I donated X dollars to Kiva. Love it. Love it. Oh, I

Tom Matzen 40:34

got chills with that, Dan. In fact, you know what, if you do that, if you’ve never been to, Kiva, And you make a contribution to fund a small business. It’ll give you a chance to share it after you make the contribution. Just tag me on the share.

Dan Kuschell 40:49

Tag Tom in the share, show your appreciation, we’ll get more people doing more loans to Kiva. That’s right. Let’s help more people. You can help more you can get help. And we can and he knew and us and all of us can Well guess what it’s called create a movement, isn’t it?

Tom Matzen 41:02

Love it brother.

Dan Kuschell 41:04

together at all achieve more miracles. So, so Tom as we wind this down, so speak to this dolphin experience, where did you have this experience? Like how did it happen? Like, did like one of your family members push you out of a boat? Were they out at all?

Tom Matzen 41:19

Oh, no, maybe this one I get two full points for In fact, when I was married, I got two full points every time I told the story, now that I’ve now that it’s my first wife and not my existing wife, I don’t get the same number of emotional points, but it’s still a pretty cool story. I was I was going to propose, and I’ve been on the road living in eastern Pennsylvania for a number of months. And my wife lived in Vancouver. While then fiance, actually not even fiance, just girlfriend at the time, lived in Vancouver, and we agreed to get together for a few days in the Bahamas. Neither one of us had been there. And so she flew all the way across the country. And I flew down to the Bahamas, and my sister and her had talked and she was pretty T shirt. I was going to pop the question. So I thought, well, that’s not romantic enough. I gotta I gotta up my game. So I went into a store in the Philadelphia area and I bought a set of Ruby little jewelry things. And I conveniently left them in the top of my bag. So that when we got into the room, I could go when she opened up the bag. Oh, oh, no, no, you can’t see that. Oh, oh. Oh, honey, I was gonna give you that. I I know. I know. We’re gonna get married someday. But I just wanted to show you my love and, and I bought this for you just special and I owe you just spoil the surprise. Oh, no, no, I’m surprised. That’s all. Thank you so much. And it was my decoy gift. And it was my deek out gift. She then all of a sudden went oh, I guess he’s not proposing. Oh, well just enjoy the weekend in the Bahamas. And I had arranged the only place in the world you can swim with the dolphins in the wild is the Bahamas currently. And I had arranged for us to go out swim in the wild and then we would come back With the dolphins to near their jetty still in the wild, and a dolphin would swim the proposal ring to her. What? That’s amazing. So we’ve gone out done all of our stuff. And by the way, if you ever get a chance to swim with the dolphins Oh my god, it’s amazing. Hold on to their dorsal fins to have them to flip through their tail. You’re surfing along the water. It’s like Chris, and I’m a big guy. Let me tell you, it didn’t matter to them. They couldn’t care less how big I was two flips to their tail. They were zipping along 40 miles an hour easy. On the surface of the water. It was crazy. So we had all that fun, but it was a cold morning and there are only two couples. There’s myself and my my girlfriend, and there was this this gay couple one. He was from Charlotte and the other guy was from San Francisco. And I remember dearly because I almost married the guy from Charlotte. Because here’s what happened. We get back to the area around and the deal was they had these big white rings and the wedding ring would be tied to the big white ring. And Kelly is in the water and she’s was told by the guy to splash your hands, and the dolphin would swim the ring to her. And so she kind of went like this and nothing happened. And the guy from Charlotte went No, no like this. And the dolphin swims. Wow, with the little ring tied to it. And on the boat, I know what’s up and the guy knows what’s up, but no one else has a clue. And so the dolphin swims it over there. They’re all having fun. And we’re both yelling the guided me at Kelly guy, Enter. And she’s like, whatever. He’s having fun. I’m happy. Oh, hit your hands. So she hits her hands and the dolphin then swims over to her. And then she gets the big ring and on the little ring is the diamond and she sees it and I propose and she loses it and we have fun and I almost married a gay man from Charlotte.

Dan Kuschell 44:46

That’s amazing story.

Tom Matzen 44:52

So not only did I swim with them in the wild, I proposed in the wild with the ring.

Dan Kuschell 44:56

So in the wild, not only can you propose but you can get 19 Hundreds of leads three times.

Tom Matzen 45:01


Dan Kuschell 45:02

the fun and most importantly get freedom. Right fun, enjoy life finance you love by setting up the processes that Tom has shared with you. And I encourage you come back to this episode of That’s go to LinkedIn, check out what Tom’s doing. Hit the link, take advantage of the potential scholarship. Show him you’re committed, put some skin in the game, make a small donation to Kiva. It’s not required, but have fun with it, you know, Share, share the share the good, if you will. That’s what we’re all here to do to help more people have a bigger impact or bigger reach a bigger contribution and be a force for good. What is something Tom, I should have asked you that I didn’t get a chance to ask you yet.

Tom Matzen 45:42

Oh, man, I made so many mistakes over the years is do we have like 17 hours? Let me think if I had to say one thing right now given what’s going on all the different things that are out there. I would say the question would be If someone is struggling to make enough profit, what’s the single biggest thing they should be doing right now? Because, you know, the reality is there’s a lot of people being hurt by the COVID pandemic craziness, some of it their fault, most of it not. And by the way, normally as an entrepreneur, usually it’s our fault. Right? Usually we don’t have someone very convenient to blame, like the government or disease. Usually it’s our fault when we’re struggling, right? Yeah. So for most of us, experienced entrepreneurs were like, yeah, whatever bringing on, you bring on some cash. It’s just part of our journey. And if you’ve been through enough ups and downs, you do that, but there are some people out there that are really getting hurt by it. And I would say if you’re in that category, first off, we feel your pain. Like just know it, we feel your pain, and suck it up. And I mean that sincerely. Sometimes you just need to say, you know what, I’m done feeling the pain. It’s time to turn this around. Right? Here’s the thing, my experience, you can’t turn it around until you say you’re done feeling the pain, you got to say, I’m done. Not that you the pain is going to disappear. But I’m just done embracing that model. And now it’s time to turn the corner. Right? We call it survive and thrive. Instead of crash and burn, I get into thrive mode. And then when you’re in thrive mode, surround yourself quickly with people you value, get four or five people together. If you have a formal mastermind, get on the agenda for your next one. If you don’t make an informal mastermind, right, if you know Dan or Tom reach out to us, we’ll come on that call, get in a zoom call, get a bunch of people around and just brainstorm. How do I thrive? What can I do right now to thrive? And you know what, an hour, hour or two later, you’ll have more ideas than you ever imagined possible. And then after the brainstorming goes, sort them and rank them and prioritize them and do your left brain logical stuff to it. But while you’re brainstorming just Throw all the ideas, capture all the ideas, and then get out there and start thriving. If you add enough value to the right people in the right way, and you’re prepared to have the guts to guarantee it, you can thrive so fast. We have all kinds of people that take our free scholarship and do 100,000 in sales in 28 days. Like it, you can actually change your entire life in a month. If you’re focused on it. If you’re focused on it, sometimes it takes six months I get it, but sometimes it doesn’t. And sometimes it doesn’t. And the difference between short and long term recovery is the eight inches between your ears.

It's easier to 10x your business than to 2x your business. - Tom Matzen Click To Tweet

Dan Kuschell 48:40

Yes, right. It is so good. What are 1 to 3 action steps you hope our viewers our listeners take from our time today.

Tom Matzen 48:48

Review the notes on risk reversal and execute a one test one of those tests one of those right away. Test one of those right away. I had a guy watch that part of one of our master classes. Just if Two weeks ago, on Friday, and by Monday, he had changed his pricing structure from 2000 a month to 25,000. guaranteeing 50,000 didn’t even apply all of our ideas just part and sold for clients on Monday for clients on Monday and then he sends me a video on Tuesday saying great news. I’m like, What four days that’s like a record for me I didn’t even heard from the guy just said you should go watch this is a really have a big impact on your business. So get out and test it and get out and test it. And then number three, let Dan and I know how it worked. lead gen and I know how it worked. Because here’s the thing. If you think Dan and I are sharing all this knowledge and wisdom because we’re getting compensated, you don’t know the podcast business model very well do you? Number one, number two, that’s not what drives and excites us. What drives and excites us is impact. Right from our paid clients. Sure, but also from our free clients. I get more excited by the 94% people To watch my master classes that never spend a dime, then the 6%, who gives us a lot of money. Now, I want to be clear those 6% very important to our life and our business. But I focus our master classes on the 94% that never give us a dime. Because that there, you know, we’re all in this ride together, this crazy ride together. And the more we can help each other, the more fun it is, frankly, and the faster we get there, because inherently You know what, I’m lazy as an entrepreneur, I’m lazy. If I can get 10 times the results, for half the work, I’m gonna take that path every day that I can, as long as it’s moral, as long as it’s honorable and ethical. I will take that path every single time I can. And you should, too. You should too. You should be looking for those shortcuts. And those that only happens when you do what you’re doing. Now you’re listening to a podcast. I call that working on your business. Right and you when you’re working on your business, that’s where the great ideas come when you’re in your business. You’re just getting things done doing it doing it doing it as Michael Gerber used to say are you doing Doing it doing it doing it. But it’s when you work on your business that the breakthroughs happen. So congrats for sticking with us the whole 40, 50 minutes whatever we are by now and and working on your business good for you now put an action,

Dan Kuschell 51:13

put it into action I challenge you take action with the process that Tom has shared with you apply the six steps, at least one of them or two of those steps apply a portion of those steps. And most importantly, test, test test. Right if you will put this in place. Not only will you attract better clients, you’ll attract more clients, you’ll attract more leads, you’ll generate more sales, you’ll likely have a whole lot more fun. you’ll move from selling to serving, you’ll move from selling to helping more people, you’ll have a bigger impact. You can create a bigger movement, you will find yourself at a place where you’re not questioning and doubting yourself going Am I good enough? Why do I keep hearing about all these other people it can start as simple as having a simple six step offer like Tom laid out for you. I encourage you Take action. I also encourage you go deeper with what Tom has shared with you check out the link in the notes here at go take him up on his scholarship while they’re still available. They’re limited. Ideally, you’re seeing and hearing this at a time when they are still available. Go reach out to Tom on LinkedIn, he’s got amazing resources, all kinds of other tools take the first step by taking advantage of the scholarship while it’s still there and or connecting with them on LinkedIn you can do that Tom it’s been awesome to have you my friend. I look forward you know as long as you’re open to it I’d love to have you back on as a guest here real soon I think this could be a fun ongoing conversation happy to do it

Tom Matzen 52:37

Dan happy to do it. You’re doing some fabulous work out there and we got to support each other the guys that are making a difference so happy to do it man appreciate

Dan Kuschell 52:43

That’s awesome. So take action. Take action, seize the day come back at the access to the resources if you never want to miss an episode, by the way,, Seize the day. Make it a great week. We’ll see you next time on Thanks for listening to this episode of Are you struggling to get a steady flow of new clients every day? Or maybe hit a plateau or hit a wall and growing your business? Well, let’s help you solve this problem today. Let’s review your business and have a conversation. Do that for free today at, that’s In addition, if you’re looking for a simple way to implement some of what we’ve been talking about in today’s episode, I want to encourage you to get our free small business toolkit. You get that at that’s If you’d like access to the special resources and all the show notes for this special episode, make sure to visit

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